[Clev-jug] Cleveland JUG Thoughts

[Scott Seighman]

Hi All,

Some additional feedback from last week's JUG meeting, thanks Andy.

Scott

-------- Original Message --------

Andy Gibson writes:

At the JUG meeting I made a number of notes as people discussed their 
points, and towards the end we ran short of time so I never really got 
to make them. So I typed them up and included them below.

*Hands-On Labs *-I think the hands on approach will be very slow. By the 
time we get starter content loaded on the laptops, we only have an hour 
or so which will mean that it will be very slow to go through a number 
of development steps. Watching one person go through something step by 
step (and having one they built earlier to demonstrate) is a much better 
process, and while it may be dry, it will give you more experience of 
the process being demonstrated. However, I think hands-on labs will 
really shine if they were done over a period of a few weeks as part of a 
sub-group. Each mini-course could start with a 10 minute presentation at 
the regular meeting and people could sign up for it if there and it will 
indicate the level of interest.

*"Dry" Presentations* - For a presentation to have mass appeal, they 
need to tackle somewhat broader topics. It could be a general 
introduction to a web framework, or a comparison of web frameworks, or 
ORM tools. Something very specific like clustered web services using 
struts and terracotta isn't going to strike a chord with many. I enjoyed 
the presentation by (I think) Jon Kern from Compuware on agile 
methodologies which is a topic that applies to most development.

One thorny problem I do see is the issue of boring vs. confusing 
presentations when considering developer skills. I personally have 
gotten a bit fed up when half way through a presentation the whole thing 
has been derailed for the last half because the presenter has been 
repeatedly flooded with simple questions. Of course, the inverse of that 
is the person who rather than take a demonstration at face value needs 
an in depth explanation of what is going on before they accept a 
solution (inquisitive chaps that we programmers are).

I don't know that there is an answer to this except to say that if you 
are giving a presentation, it isn't too much to expect the audience to 
have some vague knowledge of the subject matter and understand the 
principles that serve as the foundation the subject matter is built on. 
Obviously, if I'm going to a presentation on Terracotta, then I probably 
should know what clustering is and what it is for and what we use 
servers for, but I might like a 5 minute introduction to it, and the 
common problems with clustering. Perhaps one way around this is to make 
a request for links to web pages that give the basic introduction to the 
subject matter that can be posted on the web site pre-presentation. 
Attendees may then get a foundation in the subject matter so the 
presentation can move ahead more briskly.


*Best Practices* - I see a couple of problems with best practices 
presentations. One is that again, it could be very specific to your 
problem and not of broad enough interest. The another is determining 
whether a solution really is a smart answer or does everyone else do the 
same thing? I have come up with a couple of solutions to problems that I 
consider a great idea (Pagination with Seam & JSF) that I plan on 
spreading to the rest of our development team, but the Cleveland JUG may 
think it is a fairly obvious design solution. On the other hand, some of 
the newer java programmers may really appreciate the demonstration of 
the concept. Some of the more experienced java programmers may 
appreciate it also if only to get an alternative solution they already 
solve. However, it still isn't worth anything if it is an obvious 
solution. It all comes back to trying to get some idea what everyone 
else is doing as someone at the meeting mentioned.

*Round Tables* - Today at work I had the pleasure of spending nearly 2 
hours listening to a podcast by a bunch of .net guys talking about 
different ORMs, talking about whether to use an ORM or not, and how 
MSFTs Linq is going to impact ORMs and their upcoming ORM. These guys 
didn't all necessarily disagree or agree, but it was enjoyable to hear 
their responses and seemingly unbiased discussion on various questions 
raised by the moderator. I think we can easily come up with something 
where a panel of a few people can give their thoughts on a topic they 
are well versed in. I think most people attend JUGs because at least in 
part, they love what they do, they like reading about what they do, and 
they like hearing from people that do the same thing they do if only for 
a different perspective. Before the meeting started, there were a number 
of people discussing unit testing by the pizza, and it was interesting 
to listen to.

*Format* - Perhaps the meetings need to have a few smaller sections at 
the start, maybe sometimes we start with a state of the Java jobs 
market, maybe we spend 15 minutes going over some part of the 
certification books, or maybe even a couple of snippets from books like 
refactoring by Martin Fowler or Code Complete by Steve McConnell just 
for a best practices mini-piece. Maybe even links of the month that 
links to good online articles or papers, links that can be submitted to 
the JUG prior to the meeting, and printed out or sent out via email.
Perhaps we can consider is having multiple presentations in an evening 
if it is not possible to have one big presentation. They can be 
mini-presentations that last anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes (possibly 
longer if there are questions). This way, people may eventually pluck up 
the courage to get involved without being overwhelmed about giving a 90 
minute presentation.

*Tools* - I think using the email list is key to solicit ideas, and 
garner interest in participation. For example, if you wanted to do a 45 
minute round table you can ask for suggestions for topics and depending 
on the responses to the suggestions, see if anyone wants to participate 
in the round table discussion. Once the topic has been determined, 
perhaps then you can solicit questions or points to make to the panel 
for discussion. People will become more comfortable discussing things in 
front of everyone which will lead to a more open and informal group with 
a better comfort level.

*JUG Projects *- I've always been interested in working on additional 
projects, but haven't really found an itch to scratch or an idea that 
would appear to be worthwhile spending the time on. I like the ideas 
regarding starting a group project, and think there may be a couple of 
ways of approaching this, although the first problem any project will 
have is determining which framework to use ;-)

*Questions* - Just as another thought, have you considered creating a 
questionnaire? That might shed some light on the experience of the 
attendees and also get some ideas of what they know and what they are 
interested in.

*Topics *- Lastly, here are some ideas for future topics (some of which 
should be considered as mini-presentations)

    Compiling the JDK - from creating the environment to trying out the 
compiled jdk
    State of the Java jobs market - which technologies are hot  (monthly 
topic?)
    Discuss Sun strategy with regards to going full stack with MySQL 
purchase
    Discuss the state of the java industry - too many frameworks, 
pro/cons of standards
    Future of java (java 7, closures, proper generics? etc..)
    Agile - brief intro and then ideas on how to implement it where you work

Round Table discussions -

   / Spring /- J2EE heaven or proprietary flash in the pan?
    /EJB3 /- Bringing the standards to meet the proprietary offerings or 
too little too late?
    /Spring vs Ejb3/ - Hand out flame suits at the door
    /Unit Testing/ - Overhyped or Underused?
    /ORM tools/ - pure domain model, hand written SQL, and how do DBAs 
respond to schemas that are ORM friendly?.
    /Java web hosting/ - why is it so expensive when the software is 
free, and it is supposed to be \easier to run compared to alternative 
solutions?

Over all it was a good meeting, and we covered a lot of ground. We just 
need to determine where to go from here.

Cheers,

Andy Gibson


-- 
Scott Seighman
Systems Engineer
Sun Microsystems
877.450.8885
scott.seighman at sun.com

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